Looks fun. Wow, that is peculiar that there is a casting built in right where you want to put the jet. Is that jet suitable for this size intake? I mean if it's too big will it restrict flow when not in use or be hard to tune at lower flow rates? I've never done a nitrous install. I'm following along. Almost seems like just what this bike needs. Just a little boost on the front straight, or to get around a car on the street.

I have to wonder what your average nitrous usage will be. I lot of people complain about heavy NOS usage on various installs but I bet that this little bike just sips it and it lasts a long time.

Last year I thought I saw a Grom with a nitrous install while I was in my truck. I got close and then realized it was an NOS energy drink screwed to the bike in a bicycle bottle holder. I got a good laugh out of that.

 

Looks fun. Wow, that is peculiar that there is a casting built in right where you want to put the jet. Is that jet suitable for this size intake? I mean if it's too big will it restrict flow when not in use or be hard to tune at lower flow rates? I've never done a nitrous install. I'm following along. Almost seems like just what this bike needs. Just a little boost on the front straight, or to get around a car on the street.

I have to wonder what your average nitrous usage will be. I lot of people complain about heavy NOS usage on various installs but I bet that this little bike just sips it and it lasts a long time.

I should probably clarify some terminology. Even though I called that a jet I should have called it a nozzle. Nozzles are fairly standardized for sizing so I don't really have a choice. The jets fit inside the nozzle and come in various sizes to tune how much nitrous you are actually injecting. It does look pretty big in that tiny throttle body. I have some baseline dyno runs from a few years back so I'll know right away if the flow difference is positive or negative. I'm not concerned at the moment since intakes have this mysterious way of gaining flow by adding turbulence. The big question is am I adding turbulence or restricting flow?

Nitrous usage is dependant on the jet. Bigger jet = more usage. I'll be using the smallest jet available at 0.009 for the fuel and ratioed properly that puts me at .015 for the nitrous. With that teeny tiny little orifice I'm expecting about 80 to 100 seconds of actual "button" time with a 10oz bottle. That .015 jet unfortunately equates to about +10hp at the crank so I will be ramping and fluttering the solenoids by pulse width modulation. Thinking about starting with the theoretical +5hp and see how that goes.

I got a nitrous pump and fill station this summer because the ZX10 eats up about 4 pounds of nos per track day. At $14/lb CAD retail and a one hour round trip drive to get bottles refilled it's easy to see why. With the tiny bit of nitrous this little guy is getting and a refill station at home I'm not even slightly concerned about consumption.

 

Someone here had nos on their grom and had said it was perfect.

Can't wait to see how this turns out

 

Are you going to set up a purge valve haha?

 

No. I thought about it, but there is only 10 inches of line to purge. Would pretty much be a waste of a solenoid.

 

Found an awesome little pocket under the seat. Didn't have to relocate any factory stuff, just used the void. Made a small aluminum plate to mount the solenoids to. It shares bolts with the rectifier so I didn't even need to make any new holes or mount brackets. Only difference is the bolts needed to be a lot longer and they now thread from the inside out through the mounting plate, through the tabs, through the rectifier, with some acorn nuts to finish it off.

Tee'd off the fuel line and played lego with fittings and mock ups for a few hours.

Ta da. Solenoid mounting and fuel supply complete.

Next is either wiring (my favorite) or a bottle mount (not really looking forward to that). Haven't decided yet.

 

Not to get off topic, but do you think the battery could be moved down to that space you found? It would lower center of gravity a little.

 

Hmmmm, that is an awesome idea. I wonder if that's what that compartment started out it's design life as but was abandoned later?

Yes, I'm fairly certain it would fit in there without having to ditch or move existing electrical.

 

I wonder if that's what that compartment started out it's design life as but was abandoned later?

Calif, Model Fuel Evaporative System

The stock canister mount is set up for a 2 1/4" Dia. or maybe a 2 1/2" would fit and
I put a 2 1/4" X 8" bottle in there for a visual.
So maybe a place for your bottle ?
I can send you my bracket and mounts being de-smog now

 

I smaller lithium would certainly fit then, incase you need an option, not that lithium will weigh anything. But for my stocker I may think about moving it lower.

Heat might be the only issue with putting it lower, going to get more engine heat down there.

Are you going to put a manual NOS switch on the bars, or have it trip at WOT? If the smallest you can get is 10hp, that poor little motor is going to have a hard time. That's a BIG percentage increase, even if you have a big bore/stroker kit installed it is still going to be almost double. And more than double a stock engine.

How much power can the stock drive chain take?

 

I think the stock will fit, and if you're doing a heat resistance experiment best to learn on the stocker rather than a lithium.

There will be a master switch that when turned on, the horn will re-map to gogo juice. Master switch off = horn functions normally and no accidental activation. I've tried the WOT and window switches. Not a fan.

Yes, there is a good chance that motor will have issues. I've learned (the hard way) to ramp it in rather than give it a big smack. Plan is to start the PWM at 10:90 (open time to closed ratio at 60hz) through a 2 second ramp and max out at 50:50. That theoretically gets a nice smooth ramp up to a max of +5hp and shouldn't be very exciting. Can move up from there. Being an electronics dork can have it's advantages.

How much power can the stock drivetrain take? I'd be surprised if that's the weakest link but I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

 

What other mods are done/ plan on doing to the bike? Are you going to install a hd clutch?

 

The clutch and gp shift were the first two mod's I did. Then quick turn throttle, intake, and renthalls. Subcage with fender eliminator, integrated stop/turn/tail. That's about it. I have my PCV lent out to a buddy at the moment so he can play with it and decide if he wants one. Not sure if you count winter tires as a mod but I got those too.

Mods I plan on doing? It will likely need a forged piston, stiffer rod, and head studs soon. That's probably going to be it. My drag bike eats up the majority of the budget and the ZX6 is a daily that gets some shinies once in a while but goes through lots of tires. As my kid gets bigger and faster his bike is chewing up more stuff more often too. The Z125 unfortunately is at the back of the bus and doesn't get many goodies.

 

That’s cool, I also have a 09 zx6r for my daily, It’s mostly stock and I go 6.80’s in the 8th with a 6.77 as my Pb. It’s definitely no souped up drag bike lol but I had fun out there.

anyway.. Sweet build so far with your Z, I will be anxiously waiting for the video of you spraying it for the first time

 

How many cameras do you have? Would be nice to have a few different angles to watch, especially if it blows the top off.

How much room is around the head studs in the case? Just wondering if bigger diameter studs could be used, or at least helicoil/thread inserts and stronger studs. Back in the day, a popular mod to air cooled VW Beetles was to drill and helicoil the studs to prevent pull out when you increased the power. If you really wanted to go more power, longer studs with the "deep stud" mod were the thing to do.

 

I haven't had the head off one of these for a while. Don't remember exactly how much room there is but definitely something to look in to this winter.

3 hero sessions in the fleet (those little square ones). That's a good idea to have multiple angles of the head. I hope it doesn't blow off, but if it does it will be a pretty cool vid!

 

Time for an update. Been working on the sparky stuff since it's my favorite.

1. Mounted 2x 12v relays adjacent to the seat pin latch. Fit nicely and very discreet (Pic 2)​
2. Standardized the Arduino Nano/Dimension Engineering PSU/Dual Relay Kit form factor and mounting. Sick of reinventing the wheel each time I do these. This is what will show up on the KB site one day. (Pix 3,4,5)​
3. Module location and mounting (Pic 6)​
4. Plug and play harness + finished wiring (Pix 7 & 8)​
5. Front LHS between tank and steering stem with NOS master switch, horn button interface, etc. (Pix 9 & 10)​

It's almost as if someone at Kawasaki wanted me to put nitrous on this. It just fits so well and makes so much sense.
Could those relays fit any better?
Could that black box fit any nicer? (which I have many multiples of including the one in my 250+ whp ZX10) what an awesome fluke!!
Could the master switch be located any better if we tried? The hole was right there in a frame gusset exactly where I wanted one. Didn't even have to resize it.

This is (so far) the least amount of fab on any wet shot NOS set I have ever built.

Left to complete:
Stupid frickin bottle mount.
Coding.
Dyno day.

 

All that's left to do is a second O2 Bung (18mm) for wideband AFR/datalog/autotune. Quite happy with how stealthy it is.

No test pilot yet since roads are still covered in sand/salt and still a fair bit of ice and snow. Probably this weekend though.

 

This is such a dope build I want to do something crazy to the z this might be a good idea lol

 

this might be a good idea lol

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I'm pretty sure this is a bad idea but we'll find out soon enough. Bad decisions make good stories right? Just waiting for things to defrost a bit around here. Could maybe see a vid as early as next week if the weather holds.

 

Just a quick update.
Good news = no damage or catastrophic failure.
Bad news = nothing exciting happened.

Went for a little test today and it was WAY rich. Instantly bottomed out my wideband O2 at 10.0:1 so in reality it was much lower than that. I incrementally added timing until I was +2deg ahead of stock, and concurrently took out -5 -10 -15 -20% fuel. Didn't need fancy electronics to tell it was still way off. Surprised I didn't foul a plug today.

Fuel/Nitrous jet ratios are always tricky but I knew this one was going to be some kinda special. Got it home, pulled the datalog, watched the vid's, and tomorrow we will be going with a .019 Nitrous and .009 fuel jet (previously .015 and .009 respectively). See what that gives us.

 

So in order to get around the 13.5:1 AFR I kept increasing the nitrous jet size since I'm already using the smallest fuel jet available. I ended up at 0.026 N and 0.009 F which is mathematically adding about 16hp at the crank (Yikes)!

It went surprisingly well and I increased the PWM (valve flutter) until it was taking the full hit. Then it completely lost power and started spewing oil from the breather. Originally I thought I burnt a hole in the piston but after disassembly it turns out it was cracked. Looking at the datalog the AFR was perfect all the way through. Not too hot, just too much power for the little guy (and maybe a bit too much timing, I thought I heard a bit of pinging).

New piston and hardware is ordered and I'm going to max the PWM ramp out at 75% but keep the same jetting. Probably be at -5deg (over stock) timing advance. Was at -3deg at the time of failure. Stupid me I was on 95 octane when I have a jug of race gas right beside it. So it will be at 112 octane leaded next time (no frickin way I can pre det that on a 9.6:1 compression ratio!).

I have LOTS of footage that I'm filtering this weekend so will FOR SURE have a vid on the youtube channel this week (I'll post it here too).

Now I know for sure that the stock engine can handle a minimum of +10hp with a proper wet shot of nos and a very minimal ramp (0.25 seconds).

PS: Has anyone found a forged piston for the stock bore yet? I seriously can't find one.

 

I think I might still have a few stock piston at the shop one had 20miles on it when I swapped it for a guy

 

Well. I forgot something really really stupid and it took a friend of mine to point it out.

I didn't over gap the rings which explains the weird fracture. More heat = more expansion and the ring ends smack together. When that gap is gone the ring is forced tighter against the cylinder wall, which in turn quickly creates even more heat and more expansion.

Live and learn I guess. Glad I only forgot it here rather than on my ZX10.

 

 

Update on the rebuild.

Have a new piston, rings, wristpin, circlips in there.
Stock ring gap :
0.0059-0.0118 Top
0.0118-0.0177 Second
Current ring gap:
0.014 Top
0.022 Second
Checked the oil control rings (the two that sandwich the wafer portion) and they were 0.017 out of the package so I gapped those to 0.022 as well.

Other changes:
Straight Fury 108 (Leaded)
Cooler plug (went from the stock 6 to a 7)
Indexed plug to the peak of the dome
PWM valve flutter at 75% (37ms closed for 13ms @ 20hz). No ramp.
Retarding timing by 5 degrees

Will try and test it out this week.

 

Went down to a 0.021 Nitrous jet (from the 0.026). Tried it out on Sat this last weekend and it felt really strong. No pinging, plug looked perfect, but it would get to some very "crispy" high AFR readings right at the button push and then settle out. I didn't push it and waited until I got home to put in a bigger fuel jet.

In an effort to be safe rather than sorry I went from a 0.009 to a 0.012 fuel jet. Figured worst case scenario it would be really rich again and I could always go down to a 0.011 or a 0.010.

Well, today went out for a spin. Hit the gogo juice (peaked at 12.4:1 AFR and then hovered around 11.9/12.0). Sounded really weird and pingy. Let off and headed for home and it seemed to be running fine at cruising speed. Got to a stop sign, it stalled and wouldn't start at which point I noticed oil spewing out of the breather. Thankfully I've learned lessons about this and either stay close to home or bring the trailer. I was within a block of my house at the time.

I'm guessing there is either a hole in the piston, a cracked piston, or both. Dammit! Thought I was playing it safe. Don't understand what happened there since it was much more lean on Saturday with no issues. Wondering if I was on the cusp of failure and did the damage on Saturday with today being the proverbial last straw.

New pistons on order. In too deep and much too close to give up now. Nitrous is a temperamental mistress.
If only I could find a forged piston for the stock bore.

 

I applaud your persistence on this. Hopefully you will get it right soon.

 

Will this be another KawasakiBrad new product mod when you get it dialed in

 

Strongly doubt it. I'll share my settings and maps for anyone that is interested in doing their own. But this setup would probably retail for over 1k CAD and that's if you already have a fuel tuner. Doubt many would buy it.

Even in the big bike/car world people seem to go for the cheapest one they can find and then learn all the lessons the hard way (+1 guilty as charged 20 years ago). I think that's why nitrous has such a bad reputation for wrecking stuff. With experience and all the proper equipment it's still hard to get figured out. With a cheap "dry shot" it's impossible.

 

As discussed in the "Timing advance/retard terminology" thread it turns out that I was using some incorrect values for advance vs retard. I'm a little torqued about this at the moment but proves that it's worth some digging when evidence points the opposite direction of advice.

For anyone who is using Dynojet (PowerCommander) the software values for timing are:
-# in degrees spark happens later
+# in degrees spark happens earlier

This seems to be the majority but it is not universal throughout tuning software/hardware brands.

Picked up the new piston yesterday and we'll try this again. (probably next week since my "big bike" track has the season opener on Friday and the weather looks fanfrickintastic).

I'm not even going to change the jets or plug or anything else. I think my problem was 100% timing induced. This time I'll be using -5 degrees making the spark happen 5 degrees later than stock. Vs +5 degrees which made the spark happen 5 degrees sooner than stock and a full 10 degrees before what I was actually trying to accomplish.

Should probably have a couple pistons and head gaskets sitting on the shelf I think. Yeah they're weak, but at least they're cheap.