[Phantomx2k]

If you only want cool looks and more noise, with potentially a slight decrease in power, you don't need a tuner. Plenty of people go this way, and while you won't get any real results, your bike won't instantly explode. If you want to actually achieve the performance the intake and exhaust were intended to provide, for sure, you want a tuner. Contact us anytime with questions. We have a proven track record of budget minded, reliable packages.

I would completely disagree with that statement. there are proven videos and dyno charts showing absolute power gains over and over with intake and exhaust in different combinations with no tuner across multiple models of 125's not just Kawasaki. I get that your a vendor and trying to sell product but that's just an incorrect statement, as folks that are supposed to be the experts in this area to make that kind of statement is just shameful.

Here is a stock Z with Yosh exhaust dyno showing a .5hp gain (5%) pretty decent with no tuner:

Here is that same bike with the DCR cam installed with No tuner, another .5hp gain:

And finally here it is with intake/exhaust/cam/Tune - another .5hp gain and the tuner helped under the curve which is important:

This is just a guy that owns a Z and did a VLOG with Intake and Exhaust and he raved about it. At 9:00 mark you can see he hit 63mph with the combo and at one point was doing 60mph uphill. So it does make a difference

So a more correct professional response might have been something like: yes you can make power with intake and exhaust but no tune, probably about 1hp more over all which is over a 10% gain and is pretty good. To make the best use of and maximize the potential from those mods a tuner is recommended as it will add about another .5hp and add some power/tq under the curve.

I have two Z's one with intake/exhaust and one with intake/exhaust and bazazz. The tune does help some I don't notice a drastic difference between the two bikes but it does wake the bike up considerably with just intake and exhaust.

 

[Phantomx2k]

Funny you'd post those videos. Ari's a great friend, and got all the product he's demonstrating from us. The tuner makes the single largest impact, and he'd tell you the same. If I recall correctly, the gains he's stating (and you referenced) are off simply the initial install of the tuner, with the base enhanced map only. Because the cam requires different tuning, he made lots more power after he used the tuner to make the required adjustments.
As for comparing two bikes, with and without, it depends on the tune you put in it, as the tuner itself doesn't do much, other than allow you to build or load the perfect tune. For instance, anytime I see someone post "I switched from a PCV to Bazzaz, and now my bike runs great", it tells me they didn't have one of the other tuned correctly, as they'll both take you to the exact same place when utilized correctly. I can take a tuner, and make a bike run horrible, great, or anything in between. For those that take the time to understand their capability, and how to utilize it, they're worth their weight in gold.

@mnnthbx the point of my post wasn't to say a tuner "doesn't" make power or isn't worth it. The point was someone posted "If you only want cool looks and more noise, with potentially a slight decrease in power, you don't need a tuner. Plenty of people go this way, and while you won't get any real results" which is factually incorrect. You do get gains, you don't lose power and yes they do look cool most of the time. I do agree a tuner makes it way better.

As a vendor and expert people take what you say and write with a lot of weight so putting out off the cuff comments like that which can clearly be disproved makes you look bad. As someone once said "the pen (in our case text) is mightier than the sword". It has no limitation for the damage it can cause. Not to say this is a huge issue in this particular thread, it's not but it's the principal of the matter. Be factual, guide and educate and help people and be cautious about what you say, you have more responsibility as a vendor and expert on this topic then most others would so be a good steward of that is the point i was making. If your going to be leader and authority in the space, act like it.

 

[Phantomx2k]

I don't want to drag this out the entire point was be carful what you say, if anything the first reply I quoted was kinda condescending from a vendor "sure do that if you want to noise and no power" is essentially what it said I thought that was kinda not cool and I have a right to that opinion.

As for my experience on the matter, I've owned over 50 motorcycles in my life, I own 7 currently, I've modded and wrenched on every single one of them for the past 30+ years from Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, BMW, Ducati, etc. i do my own mods myself, testing and dyno's and spend tons of money in the process testing tons of combinations to know what should work and most likely what won't. I'm also an engineer by trade so it's how my brain works. I'm hesitant to take anyone's word (been burned by that BS before) and I test it myself.

I currently have 2 Z125's and 2 Honda Monkey 125's that I'm also working on and testing out and all with different components, again to see what works and what doesn't work and have done real world testing side by (since I have 2 it makes it easier) and with these little bikes little gains show up pretty easy. I'm also trying different parts on each to see how well the do or don't respond. I may not be a vendor but I have a lot of experience on the subject at hand.

Those YouTube videos are from a pretty respected source and used as a reference to say "Yea these mods do work on this bike and here some samples of some gains we've seen". There are plenty more out there. The videos are evidence as you would provide with anything else your attempting to prove a point on and they are from a respected source not Johnny Hicksville with a couple squirrels and a paint can going look my dyno gave me 50hp from my exhaust!

For the OP: Sorry we got off topic mate...
Engines need 2 things to work more effectively and more efficiently. They need Air, Fuel and a way to get it out via exhaust. When you do the right things and make those better you get performance. In that regard it's a simple formula. When you remove a factory restrictive exhaust setup it can breath easier and run better. Most decent exhaust systems available will accomplish this. Tuning will absolutely make it better then just the exhaust alone or with any other mods in conjunction. As @mnnthbx said you should be safe however there is always a chance that something goes wrong. A tuner will reduce that chance. Me personally I'm running one tuned and one not tuned with intake and exhaust and so far everything looks good, plugs, oil, temps, etc. The tuned bike pulls a little harder and idles better (thanks to my Bazzaz which I got from @mnnthbx and their tune) and the non tuned one definitely out runs stock easily.

There I think that puts us back on topic...