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Z190 - What have I gotten myself into?

49K views 41 replies 12 participants last post by  Masonpants 
#1 ·
OK boys and girls... I have a twisted feeling in my gut... part excitement, part fear...

I think it was less than a week ago I made a comment along the lines of "I'm a carb guy but I would never rip EFI out of a bike"

I just ordered a Zongshen 190cc motor to wedge into my Z:

https://pitsterpro.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=79

It is branded GPX but it is the same as the Zong. Zong also makes the Japanese Daytona motors that are very popular for pitbike racing (4 valve vs 2 valve head is the difference).

If you use coupon code "zs190" you will get the motor shipped to your door for $640.

Motor comes with all electrical accessories to get it running, a carb, and oil cooler (I confirmed this by calling them, other kits list it but this one does not specifically).

This would be a direct plug and play in a Tao Tao Hellcat 125 (grom clone) so the plan is to pick up a Hellcat wiring harness. Will most likely get Hellcat coil/rectifier/CDI/ignition etc as well... the parts are cheap!

Will need to fabricate or buy brackets to convert Z mounting location to what seems to be industry standard Honda (except for grom) mounting points... seems like a lot of these motors all share the same mounting points.

Pretty much all Z wiring goes away.

Speedometer will need to be aftermarket because Z speedo is tied to engine RPM. Will need one tied to wheel rotation. Not sure about cluster yet.

The motor is a 5 speed with electric and kick start.

You can run 428 or 420 sprockets, chain length TBD.

Power wheelies in 2nd?

>:)

Here we go...……..
 
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#5 ·
I'd imagine it can't be that hard to get the OEM cluster working with the ZS190 motor. The cluster has all relays and whatnot to make the indicators work correctly(ish). I thought someone on Facebook spliced into the OEM harness and used the stock ECU to essentially drive the indicator. I'm not sure how the ZS190 and Z125 tach signals differ, but translating between the two shouldn't be too hard...
 
#10 ·
I thought someone on Facebook spliced into the OEM harness and used the stock ECU to essentially drive the indicator.
Yeah... the guy's name is Gus and he has what I believe to be the first documented 190 swap into a Z. Nice guy. I spoke with him a bit yesterday. I hope to see farther by standing on the shoulders of giants... that being said electrically his bike is a mess.

He is running the wire harness that comes with the motor for kill switch, coil, rectifier, CDI... maybe some other stuff I am forgetting... pretty much all the motor related electronics.

He has stock wire harness for signals and other lights.

Problem is he can't get the ZS190 to charge his battery. The quantity of wires between Z components and ZS components is mismatched and they can't talk to each other. So his lights are running off battery which doesn't get recharged when riding, and he has no tach or speedo. Check engine light on all the time for multiple errors.

When the parts get here I'm going to either:
1. Use ZS harness and new wiring for all lights
2. Get Grom clone harness for more plug and play (wire length for signals and headlight etc will probably be close), but my understanding is the engine electronics will need to be swapped to grom clone electronics so # of wires match up.

Really need to get it in hand to see what I am dealing with.

My build plan is to have everything connected on the bench, and fire the motor on the bench to make sure everything is connected correctly, then figure out how to jam everything into the Z.
 
#7 ·
my '87 xr250r puts out about 24hp, that would be awesome power for a Z
 
#8 ·
Subscribed!

I'm rebuilding my Z right now cause I blew it up out on track. Steady Garage has a mounting kit for this on their website. I'm really wanting to do the 212cc conversation cause I already have the 194cc TB kit. (NEED MORE POWER!)

It looks like the stock z intake and throttle body will mount right up to this thing? Doesnt it? For the engine wiring, is it just a kill switch/starter that needs to be wired up? What else needs to?

Thanks for updating and being a Guinea pig for the rest of us ☺
 
#11 ·
It looks like the stock z intake and throttle body will mount right up to this thing? Doesnt it? For the engine wiring, is it just a kill switch/starter that needs to be wired up? What else needs to?
Intake and throttle body may bolt up, I can check when I start to tear down. I have not really considered fuel injection due to added expense, but I there are a couple guys on the ZS190 Swap Shop facebook page who have done it to Grom clones. Seems like you need a stand alone ECU to do it. I imagine a larger injector. Those guys used stock fuel pump.

As for wiring... you need to connect kill switch, ignition switch, coil, rectifier, and CDI. The connections (# of wires) on the parts that come with the ZS190 and the Z are different. Everyone seems to think you need to go with a clone wire harness and it becomes more plug and play. But that means stripping all wiring from the Z, which I think is a forgone conclusion for this swap. My preference is to make the harness that comes with the motor work, get the battery charging, and then worry about wiring up lights and signals on my own. Maybe something like this:

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle...CLkf3Q8B1uAEaxJ-3v_vkRK4N-E4JIxhoCPD4QAvD_BwE

This thing is rad it is a fuse-less fuse box, all electronic, built in signal flasher relays, built in brake flasher, you can run one control wire to handlebar to pick up everything there (add on) and you can do keyless (like swiping your card near a hotel door) for startup. Kind of pricey at 300 bucks but I've been wanting to play with one for a while.

With a device like this getting lights and accessories up and running without the stock wire harness would be a piece of cake.
 
#14 ·
Honestly it kinda was spur of the moment and Lobot brought up legit concerns... I managed to delay myself about 18 hours while I looked into it and figured for the price I'll roll the dice.

I would be happy to get 10k miles out of the motor before it starts to go.

At the end of the day, this project will be successful if and only if I can lift the front wheel using only my right wrist.

Motor arrives Wednesday.
 
#16 ·
At the end of the day, this project will be successful if and only if I can lift the front wheel using only my right wrist.
On my 194cc motor, I can easily power wheelie with it geared for a ton of top speed. (15T, 28T) can get it barely in second if I pull up.
The only reason I'm considering the 212cc kit is that it would be more reliable than what I have now. I seized my motor on track. Luckily it's an fast-ish fix. Going back to stock crank for now.
 
#24 ·
Motor arrived yesterday 2 days early. Here are some pics:

1. Packaging as shipped.
2. Motor on the bench with car keys for scale.
3. All the goodies that came with it.
4/5. Very scientific "hand" measurement for relative size comparison.
6. Starting to ID different plugs on the wire harness.

Looks like she took a hit or two in the mail but the packaging was pretty decent and it looks like it's fine.

Can't believe all this stuff for $640.

Can't believe all this stuff and ZERO DOCUMENTATION. Not even a wiring diagram.

I was able to find one but I don't speak Mandarin.

Got most of it figured out though... a lot of pitbikes seem to share the same wiring.

Motor is huge.
 

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#27 ·
I'd think it's fairly safe to say the Kawi airbox won't fit with that giant motor in the way. Any ideas on how to keep the intake to a reasonable volume? If I recall correctly you reverted from your DIY solution back to the restrictive black box for volume reasons.
 
#29 ·
So I found this wiring diagram. And a bunch of other ones, some with more details about wiring to individual components. I used a multimeter to do continuity tests and determine where all the wires connect.

Even learned a little mandarin lol by comparing the Chinese characters to wire colors and cross referencing between known colors and matching symbols. I have ID'd every wire in the harness, tested them all for continuity and have been able to determine all connection points of electronics required for startup.

The ZS wiring harness has tail lights and head light built in. The headlight connection is strange the wire gauge does not seem right and the fitting looks to be for more of a tail or signal type light, not a bright *** head light.

The combi switch has a lead for starter, lights (on/off - headlight is switchable in this setup), 2 more leads to headlight (different brightness? There is something called a "passing light" on some of these Chinese bikes... I think that is what it is because there are 3 hot leads going to headlight connector), a lead to ground the CDI (kill switch)… all on same handlebar.

Clutch switch needs to be activated for starter switch to work.

I think I would like to scrap the light connections from the ZS Harness. I would like to get a Z wiring harness to cut up so I can use the connectors to attach to stock Z lights, controls, etc. I will splice connectors from the donor harness to the right contacts on the ZS harness so I can maintain stock Z handlebar controls and lights, still be able to disconnect wiring like stock for service, and go back to stock if I want.

All lights and other electronics will be run from the battery (charged by the ZS harness) through a fuse box and relay for switched power by using modified Z harness so I can connect to stock Z accessories.

So pretty much I will use ZS harness for electrical engine control (stator/CDI/Regulator Rectifier/Coil), battery charging, Neutral light, clutch safety, starter, key and engine kill switch. Headlight, Tail/Brake Light, Brake Light Switch, signals, handlebar controls and other electrical accessories will be re-wired using a donor Z harness so once my hybrid harness is made all stock Z accessories will be plug and play with removable clip connectors.

Speedo/Tach/Gas Gauge still TBD.

Before first start need to go through motor, check valve clearance, fill oil, etc.
 

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#33 ·
Operator... IMHO $150 is way way way too much money for a couple brackets and some spacers. I'm hoping to get a template and make my own. Worst case, now that I have the motor, I can measure hole spacing, measure hole spacing on the frame, and fab something myself. I have heard that the Grom adapters are made from 1/2" 6061 aluminum, this is what I will use too. You can get the aluminum to make 2 brackets for like 14 bucks. Drill some holes and cut out the shape of the bracket. Getting the front and rear sprocket into perfect alignment is the magic.

I would pay 50-60 to save the trouble, but for 150... I'll make it myself.

The other thing they sell is called a "clocking flange". The bent metal tube between the carb and the motor. the way it connects to the motor it creates a hit with the Z's frame. The clocking flange has a bunch of holes, not just 2, so you can attach it in any orientation. I'm going to try to cut mine above the flange, spin it a bit and weld it up... to save another 50 bucks or whatever they are trying to sell that piece for.
 
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